Entrepreneurship in an influencer economy

Speakers

Roger Dunaway, assistant director of public relations, Tulane Communications and Marketing
Harry Gestetner, founder and co-CEO of Fanfix and senior vice president at SuperOrdinary, 2022 graduate of Tulane’s A. B. Freeman School of Business
Rob Lalka, Albert R. Lepage Professor in Business and executive director of the Albert Lepage Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation, Tulane A. B. Freeman School of Business

 

Dunaway
Hello and welcome to On Good Authority, the podcast by Tulane University, where we bring you leading experts to talk about issues of the day and ideas that shape the world. I'm your host, Roger Dunaway. For years, social media platforms provided opportunities for thousands of creators, or influencers, to attract followers and promote specific brands. However, most influencers were not able to turn their content into a tenable source of income, and many walked away penniless. Harry Gestetner was a sophomore at Tulane in 2020 when he had an idea, an out of the box idea. What if he could come up with a way to help creators monetize their content and provide them with a viable career path? Harry collaborated with two other creators and founded his tech startup called Fanfix, a subscription-style service where users pay to see clean, exclusive content from their favorite internet stars. Creators earn money by charging fans whatever they want for membership, and fans can follow the creators, receive access to their exclusive content, and support their growth. Two years later, and prior to his graduation from Tulane, Harry and his group sold Fanfix for eight figures. I am joined today by Harry Gestetner and Rob Lalka. Harry is founder and co-CEO of Fanfix, the senior vice president of SuperOrdinary, and a 2022 graduate of Tulane’s A. B. Freeman School of Business. Rob is the Albert R. Lepage Professor in Business at Tulane’s A. B. Freeman School of Business and executive director of the Albert Lepage Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation.
Harry, you're originally from London, and you moved to California when you were 15 years old. How did you find your way to Tulane?

Gestetner
Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, obviously a very, very, very different place from London. So it's definitely a culture shock. But you know, I've done three years of school, high school, in the U.S., so I was a little bit adjusted to Americans and Americanisms, et cetera. You know, I knew I wanted to kind of go to a bit of a different city. London, awesome city, a little bit, you know, cookie-cutter. L.A., you know, awesome city, also a little bit cookie-cutter. I think it would have been the same thing if I went to an East Coast college. So I wanted to go to a really just different place, where there was just an absolute culture shock. And yeah, I ended up at Tulane and just absolutely loved it, loved New Orleans, and had an awesome experience and met some of my best friends.

Dunaway
Harry, did you already know what your career path would be when you started at Tulane?

Gestetner
Yeah, I always, you know, always wanted to be an entrepreneur. And so, I think I knew that, you know, I wanted to do everything, everything I possibly could at school and in college to kind of set myself up for future success as an entrepreneur. I was not someone who was kind of undecided on what I wanted to do, I was very set from the get-go. So the business school was just an obvious, an obvious step. And I think the most useful thing I found is just, as an entrepreneur, you’ve got to be, you know, a jack-of-all-trades. And I often say, you know, I'm really not very good at any one particular thing. In most cases, that's really not a good thing. But I think as an entrepreneur, it's, it's kind of helped me because I've been able to use, you know, certain things. So, you know, in my day-to-day, I have to deal with accountants, lawyers, marketers. And, and I think having just the breadth of knowledge of like, having taken all those classes in the business school was just really, really, really helpful for that.

Dunaway
Rob, how does the Lepage Center assist students like Harry with startups?

Lalka
Yeah, so the Albert Lepage Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation is based here in the business school. But we serve entrepreneurs from all across campus and really all levels. Our job is to help people to build businesses and to build business models. And frankly, just to learn about startups. To learn about why entrepreneurship is a, not just a career path, but honestly, it's a mindset. It's a way a way of solving problems. Our job is to be able to meet any entrepreneur where they are, any student where they are, and try and lead them forward in their own journey. And we try to be very personalized. You know, as a business professor, my job is to is to teach these students, and then anybody else who walks through our doors, the very best practices in business model generation. And we use the lean methodology so how to how to pivot quickly, and how to grow, how to listen very deeply when you're conducting customer interviews and trying to learn more about the market and more about the business you want to build for.

Dunaway
And, Harry, what was your takeaway from working with Rob and the Lepage Center?

Gestetner
I mean, it was absolutely amazing and incredibly key to my success. I think the main thing that I, I love about the Lepage Center, and obviously, you know, Rob as well, is I think, just everyday life in general, and especially school, is not conducive to being an entrepreneur. And you know, being an entrepreneur in general is a very unnatural thing to do. You take on an inordinate amount of risk and a lot of responsibility for a very low chance of payday, you know, many years down the line potentially. And, you know, yet the potential upside, and you know, the impact you can have, is just astounding. And I think, you know, unmatched in any other field. So to have, you know, a place that is so conducive to being an entrepreneur and a person enrolled that's there for the sole purpose of encouraging entrepreneurship and doing everything they can to to foster it and, you know, further the success of the entrepreneurs there was just incredible. And I think, you know, having been surrounded by other hungry entrepreneurs, was really brilliant, just, you know, being able to bounce ideas, having a place to work and go and, you know, it's quite definitely, being an entrepreneur is a very lonely gig.

Dunaway
So our audience, it's very diverse for this podcast, can you explain the Gen Z creator economy?

Gestetner
First of all, we’ll start with Gen Z, Gen Z are the ages of 8 to 24. We particularly focus on 13 to 24 because they're able to use social media. And then the creator economy, the creator economy exists as a failure of the social media platforms. And the social media platforms, the main ones being Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, Snapchat. And the creator economy has kind of popped up over the past few years, on the back end of those social media platforms, because those social media platforms have made a lot of “creators,” we call them, other people call them “influencers,” and those are people who create content on those platforms for a living. And these, these platforms have really failed to take care of those people, to make it a viable career path through being able to monetize on the platforms, and have just absolutely taken advantage of these creators. The creator economy has popped up, and we believe at least our mission is to help creators monetize their passions and to make creating content a viable and valid career path.

Dunaway
How was your concept and your approach different from others?

Gestetner
We focused on Gen Z. And we focused on being TikTok-first and mobile-first, when, you know, all the other competitors kind of focused on on older demographics. And I think the the space was prime for disruption. In terms of how we did it differently, we we didn't really operate it like a tech company, we operate it like a media company. So we would, you know, with our limited resources, double down on on creators and access to creators, and really getting product-market fit, and focusing more on the customer than the product. And I think, you know, that ended up in us having product-market fit very early and getting a ton of very early traction. You know, it meant that we couldn't raise as much money as some of our competitors. The venture capital firms kind of valued more of the tech approach than the media approach. But you know, in the long run, especially with the downturn now, you know, it worked out for us, and we’ve beaten out almost all of those competitors.

Dunaway
What was the one key that got Fanfix off the ground?

Gestetner
Honestly, I can't point to one particular thing, but I think the way I would describe it is just consistently being able to, you know, pull rabbits out of hats. That's that's how I, that's how I describe it. And what I mean by that is, you know, as I was saying earlier, being an entrepreneur is a very unnatural thing, and the odds are highly stacked against you. You have a very, very, very low chance of success. And to succeed, running a business, and then starting a business from from nothing and taking something from an idea, you've got to create magic. And, you know, to be able to do that. It's a tough thing to put into words. And it's not something that there's I think a playbook on. But, you know, to some examples, you know, we were able to kind of raise capital from like my bedroom at Tulane. And, you know, the business was, we were six weeks overdue on our, on our bills, and, you know, we would have gone bankrupt very, very quickly if we couldn't do that. And, you know, able to kind of pull a rabbit out of out there. And then, you know, was able to convince Cameron Dallas, who's a mega, mega, mega creator with 25 million followers, to join as a co-founder. But we had less than a thousand users, that was another kind of rabbit we pulled out of the hat. And then there were, and then getting our first creator on, and then getting the next creator, and there was so many moments I look back, and the only way I can describe it is we just, you know, we were able to create magic and pull rabbits out of hats. It's a mix of being able to, you know, kind of see, not not get deterred by noise and see, you know, light at the end of the tunnel. And then a mix of just absolutely hustling and, and just leveraging anything you possibly can, and doing anything you can to get an edge. You know, a couple of particular examples, to get that first investor to lead all round. You know, we had to speak to over 100 investors and got, I think I've calculated, we got over 150 “no’s” over the course of Fanfix from investors. And that's honestly something that they don't teach you in school. How, how painful it is to, to go and sell yourself, to just then get ghosted, or just just get, you know, the same templated “no.” So I think, you know, to be able to keep a good, good attitude there. And, you know, let it fuel you, and, and then also just to be able to kind of have the hustle. And I think Rob really, really drove that in, to have the hustle to do whatever you can to meet people and put things together that end up working out in your favor.

Dunaway
Do you believe between, you know, your time as a Tulane student, and now as a professional, that you've given the next generation of students a blueprint to become a successful entrepreneur?

Gestetner
Golly well, first of all, I definitely don't think I'm a professional. I really hope I have, I think, you know, that I’ve shown that it is possible to first of all, you don't have to drop out, you can be an active student. Second of all, it's possible to, you know, to start a business in college and, you know, grow it to selling it for tens of millions of dollars, you know, while still in college. And, and I think also, you know, showing that it is, it's possible that you don't have to go to Stanford or MIT. You know, Tulane is absolutely prime for, for entrepreneurship, and it can be done there.

Dunaway
Why do you think the the impact was so immediate, and it turned out to be such a game changer?

Gestetner
Creators have been so neglected by by these platforms for so long, and they were completely taken advantage of. And I think, you know, our our launch and our approach of being creative first and treating the creator like God, just, you know, really clicked with the creators. And then, on top of that, brand deals, which were the No. 1 way creators were monetizing, they underserved so many creators and their their ads. So for for creators just to have a method of monetizing directly from their most loyal fans without just only relying on themselves, really just just hit home for all these creatures. And and they thoroughly enjoyed it and doubled down on it. And it just kept growing.

Lalka
I'd love to ask Harry this question, because I think he has a lot of really valuable insights that folks listening to this would be interested in. Harry, you and I had so many conversations about how the origins of the internet were way more democratic, way more meritocratic, way more sort of an open capitalist system that was not enriching the very few. And those very few who got to make the decisions for everybody else. And all the data and all the content that we all create is making them richer, not doing anything for the people who create that value. Why did you see that as something that was just so obvious to you? Because I know, it was just, it was so obvious. And then, where do you think it goes from here?

Gestetner
Yeah, totally. So I think I think, you know, first of all, I remember the first day of the Lepage incubator class. Rob had us write down all of our values, which I think is such an interesting and unique way to begin an entrepreneurship class. Because people often don't associate values with entrepreneurship and and don't really consider values. And I also think, you know, that one thing I've really learned is a lot of the people you work with, you you want to share values on. And I think the, you know, the the impact we've had and the the, where I see the world going is you used to have to rely on all the big institutions for everything, whether that was getting, you know, distribution, or, you know, making money. And and now I think, you know, this is why I'm so excited about Fanfix, rather than having to, you know, rely on a massive agency or having to rely on a, you know, massive film studio or, you know, a massive record label, you know. All institutions who just completely take advantage of the creators. You can literally just pull out your phone, make an account, and start monetizing. And you're relying on only your most loyal fans, it's just you and the fan. So I think that's, that's what's so exciting. And I think, you know, where the future's going is I think that, I think that, you know, the power balance is going to shift away from these these massive conglomerates. I think it's going to shift, you know, to the fans and creators. And I think also the kind of data harvesting approach is a thing of the past. I think, you know, the future is going to be with companies that are honest in the ways they monetize and also give, you know, their own users an upside in that. And, yeah, it's very, very exciting.

Dunaway
All right, Harry, when you realized Fanfix was going to be an initial success, how were you able to set up the company for it to grow quickly?

Gestetner
Yeah, I think, honestly, we didn't, is the answer. You know, I think everything was learned on the job. And, you know, everything was tested and iterated. And there were, you know, a fair amount of cans we kicked down the road. And we ended up getting to where those cans landed, and having to, you know, undo things that we'd done and change certain things. But yeah, the answer is we had anticipated the scale, but just with the limited resources we had, couldn't fully build for the scale. So so we had to, we had to change a lot of things.

Dunaway
For our audience, what were your biggest challenges?

Gestetner
Biggest challenge was probably, you know, nobody prepares you, I think, for the for the stress of, you know, imminent demise which comes with running a startup. I think you wake up every day worried about your, your burn rate and your runway and how much time you left, you have left of survival before you need to either raise capital or you're dead. Everything in school, and everything kind of up until that point, is in a fairly controlled environment. And that was the first time that I really experienced true true risk.

Dunaway
How'd you handle it?

Gestetner
I think you've got to accept, you know, accept the risk going into it. And I think let it fuel you, and let it motivate you, rather than, you know, getting stressed about it. Because if you just sit there and think about it, and you know, focus on on the risk and stress about the risk, then you're never getting anything done. And you probably wouldn't go into in the first place because the potential risks, in many cases, outweigh the rewards. So so yeah, I think I think letting it fuel you.

Dunaway
How surprised were you when you were approached about selling your company?

Gestetner
I think time-wise, we were surprised, you know, timeline wise. We had not anticipated, I think we'd only been around about six months, five, six months. So, you know, hadn't anticipated selling the business that quickly. But in terms of, you know, selling the business, that was the goal from the start and definitely, you know, had had a belief that that was going to happen at some point. So I was not surprised by the outcome, just by the timeline.

Dunaway
Is that normal, six months?

Gestetner
Definitely not, it is very unusual. Usually it takes people many, many, many, many years.

Dunaway
How is working at SuperOrdinary very different from running Fanfix?

Gestetner
I think, you know, we, it's a much more corporate environment now, rather than a startup environment. You know, used to be I could kind of just, you know, do things. And I want to do something, we just do it, you know. Whereas now we have a lot more control. There's, there's obviously, legal, accounting, finance, we have to go through. And I think that's a good thing and definitely great experience, and it's something that we would would have to have faced anyway. So I think, you know, as I mentioned earlier with kicking cans down the road, I think, you know, having having those controls now, those cans don't get kicked down the road anymore. We we focus on now and make sure that, you know, we're building for scale and we're building, you know, kind of within the rules. So, so I think it's a good thing in general, but, but yeah, it's it's obviously really nice as well having the resources of a much larger company. I think the space is so competitive that it's, you know, it's going to become incredibly difficult for businesses to, you know, for startups to survive. And they’re either gonna have to raise a lot of capital, or, you know, or, or take a buyout and partner with a much larger conglomerate who kind of gives, you know, give to the resources that someone like SuperOrdinary does.

Dunaway
How were you able to juggle all this? Startup, selling, and oh by the way, you had to finish college?

Gestetner
Yeah, I was busy, is the answer. But yeah, I'm lucky that, you know, I'm someone that manages stress pretty well. And, you know, although it's probably not a good thing, I never really stressed out about school. And, you know, a lot of my friends would get very worried and stressed about tests and grades. And I was, I was never that person. So I think, you know, I had less pressure on myself, in that sense, but, you know, the answer is I just worked really bloody hard. And, and I think, you know, that's definitely something that's underrated and overlooked nowadays. Startups definitely aren't for everyone. And I think, you know, that's, that's not a bad thing. I think you’ve got to be pretty, pretty, pretty crazy to go into it. I mean, you take, you take on just a humongous amount of risk. You know, you really make not very much, if any, money, I didn't take a salary, you know, for, in most cases, many, many, many years, for a very low chance of success in the end. I think some people are just wired wired that way. And, you know, there's kind of an insatiable hunger to be building something. And I think that's definitely how I'm wired. For me, I just kind of get bored if I'm not doing it. So there's just no other choice.

Dunaway
This whole process has moved at lightspeed for you. How have you been able to manage that?

Gestetner
I think you got to learn on the job. And you got to be, you know, just just constantly leveling up. And I think that, you know, often with startups, you see, the people aren't able to level up, and those people drop off along the way. And that I think, is how you can differentiate a good entrepreneur from, or a good team member, you know, from a bad one. Are they able to keep on, keep an open mind and keep on learning and kind of reinventing themselves? And I think if they can't, then the business isn't going to grow.

Dunaway
Yeah, you just touched on it. But what are those challenges that determine success or failure?

Gestetner
I think it's a number of things, I think you, to have success, it's a it's a mix between, you have to, there's there's no doubt you have to get lucky, 100 percent. But you also, at the same time, you have to be in the game to get lucky. And what that means is, if you're not putting yourself out there and taking on the risk, then you, by default, have failed. You've got to, you know, manage risk as an entrepreneur and manage potential failure. And I think that the way you do that, is by letting it fuel you. You can't just accept it, because otherwise you're going to take stupid risks. So you've got to let it fuel you.

Dunaway
What advice would you give to students who have great ideas and wonder what's next?

Gestetner
Yeah, I'd say just do it. You know, there's no, really, you could you could spend, you could bring me the greatest, or anyone, the greatest idea in the world. And you could get given a thousand reasons why you shouldn't start it, you know, the reasons why you shouldn't are always infinite. So, but the older you are, the riskier it gets, and the younger you are, you know, the the less risk there is. So you might as well just do it. And if it fails, you learn from it. And yeah, just go ahead and do it.

Dunaway
Here's the big question. Can you give our audience a glimpse of your plans in the immediate future?

Gestetner
The immediate future. I'm very, very content where I am. You know, we just sold the company in June, and to a company called SuperOrdinary, and I'm still running Fanfix and overseeing the team. And then also, I'm a senior vice president at SuperOrdinary and overseeing some really cool stuff for them as well. So I'm very, very, very content where I am, and and, you know, still a lot of fun. And I don't see that changing, and there's still a lot to accomplish, which I'm really looking forward to.

Dunaway
Harry, in your wildest dreams, did you ever imagine you'd be where you are right now?

Gestetner
Honestly, yes. I, you know, that's that's an uncommon answer to that question. But but honestly, yes, and I definitely see myself getting getting way, way, way, way, way further from where I am now. And I think, you know, it's, it's all about the mindset you have. And I think most, the vast majority, almost everyone, you know, doesn't doesn't believe in you. So you might as well believe in yourself.

Dunaway
And finally, this is for the Tulane students that are listening. Are you hiring?

Gestetner
Yes, we are. You can email me harry@fanfix.io or hit me up on LinkedIn or wherever. But we have multiple open roles and always happy to give internships to Tulane students, et cetera.

Dunaway
All right, Harry and Rob. Thank you both for joining us today. We appreciate your time.

Gestetner
Thank you very much.

Dunaway
And thank you for listening to the latest edition of On Good Authority. For information on future episodes, please visit our website tulane.edu/on-good-authority. If you like our show, please subscribe using your favorite podcast app.